Q+A’s Paul Holmes conducts the first Supercity mayoral debate between John Banks, Andrew Williams & Len Brown
The debate has been transcribed below. The full length video debate from this morning’s Q+A can also be seen on tvnz.co.nz at, Debate
Q+A is repeated on TVNZ 7 at 9.10pm on Sunday nights and 10.10am and 2.10pm on Mondays.
SUPERCITY MAYORAL DEBATE between JOHN BANKS, ANDREW WILLIAMS & LEN BROWN
Conducted by PAUL HOLMES
PAUL Next month, voting papers are going to be sent out to the households around the country as we get to elect our mayors and councils for the next three years. Now, we will know all of the winners on October 9, but no race around the country is attracting such interest or is as crucial to New Zealand’s future as that for the Auckland mayoralty and who gets to lead the new single supercity. Six candidates have confirmed their standing. In order of declarations, they are Manukau mayor Len Brown, Auckland mayor John Banks, actor and Auckland theatre-company founder Simon Praast, property manager Colin Craig and North Shore mayor Andrew Williams and water campaigner Penny Bright. I should say to you at this time that despite some continuous speculation, I am not standing for the mayoralty of Auckland. This morning… This morning we have the three standing mayors with us. This is the first time they’ve been together on a campaign platform. The first time they’ve all debated. Their order of speaking this morning, and the order in which they’re standing, has been deciding by the drawing of lots. We’ll start with an opening statement of 30 seconds from each of you. What I want you to tell us in 30 seconds is how Auckland will have improved after three years of your leadership. John Banks, 30 seconds.
JOHN BANKS – Auckland Mayor
I want all citizens of this great city to have the same opportunities that I’ve had. It’s about investment, growth, jobs, opportunity, security and prosperity around investment, growth and jobs. This is going to be the greatest change ever seen in local government’s history. It’s going to take experience. It’s going to take consistent decisive leadership from day one. All of the decisions are going to be difficult. We need to embrace all of the communities. There’s much more that unites us than divides us, but it’s going to be about investment, growth, jobs, consistent decisive role-model leadership.
PAUL Thank you, that is 30. Mr Williams.
ANDREW WILLIAMS – North Shore Mayor
Paul, in three years’ time, I will have delivered a cruise terminal down on the waterfront at Captain Cook Wharf, not at Queens Wharf. I will have delivered electric trains across the region and integrated ticketing. I will have delivered economic growth across the city and all the economic sectors together to have one large strong city working together. I will have brought the communities together from Wellsford in the north to Pukekohe in the south and really create a united Auckland with all those communities, those 21 local boards. And I will have brought vibrancy to the city through the arts, music, culture.
PAUL Thank you, Mr Williams at 30. Mr Brown.
LEN BROWN – Manukau Mayor
Paul, after three years of leadership, our people will see that Auckland really is the most liveable city in the world. Our economy will be booming. We’ll be fixing our transport. We’ll be building a rapid-transit system with rail to the airport, inner-city loop, rail to the North Shore. Our communities will be safer and stronger, and our local boards will be preserving their local identities. We will have capped our rates, and we would have produced a brilliant, beautiful city. That’s my commitment to the people of Auckland.
PAUL Which all sounds very utopian and sounds like it’s going to be easy, but, of course, you’re all realists, and you’re all current mayors, and you know it is not going to be easy. Just tell me about leadership. First of all, imposing a leadership across the whole region. How does, say, a current mayor of Auckland lead the people of Manukau? How does the current leader of Manukau lead people in Birkdale? How does the leader of Takapuna, for example, lead the people of Papakura? Big ask. Mr Williams.
ANDREW I think that’s very important, Paul. And one of the things I’m very worried about is that this will become an Auckland Central takeover of the rest of the region. What I bring to it is a perspective of around the region that I already have connections from the north to the south to the west and to the east, and as far as the Gulf Islands. We have to bring them all together.
PAUL What I’m asking is how you do it, Mr Williams.
ANDREW Uh, in a collegial manner, through all the different organisations. We’ve got so many ethnicities across this city. So many of the aged, the youth, all the various community organisations. We’ve got to bring everyone together and get on to the same sheet.
PAUL Where, though, Mr Brown, you’re talking about being kind of an Elizabethan court in progress, moving around the various regions to hold the council meetings, yes?
LEN Absolutely. Yes. Yes. I think that rotating council meetings will be an essential way of actually giving the community a sense that they are really valued. That you care for them. Do you want them to connect in? Communities are saying very clearly that they feel that they will be marginalised. They’ll lose their local identities. So we need to get around the communities. Secondly, we need to ensure the local boards are empowered so that they will be the primary connect for those communities. Paul, we’re in danger of losing those communities through this change.
PAUL Right. They’re inevitably going to lose a bit of local identity, aren’t they, Mr Banks?
JOHN Well, we’re going to lose local identity if we’re going to have marches in the street like we did in Manukau City yesterday over liquor outlets and the proliferation of the same. Unprecedented numbers of new booze outlets in South Auckland taking young people on a journey to hell. We’ve got push back on the liquor outlets. We’ve got to have a united Auckland singing from one song sheet. We need to reach out to all the communities from Wellsford to Tuakau, from Little Huia to Maraetai.
PAUL Yes, yes. But how would you do this? Would you move council meetings around like Mr Brown’s going to do?
JOHN No, because I’m going to engage with the local boards. We need to reach out to the local boards, give them the powers they need to do the job we expect, to spend local monies.
PAUL What kinds of things are they going to do, in your mind, the local boards?
JOHN Liquor outlets in South Auckland, those people that marched in the street yesterday want to push back. We’re going to push back on liquor outlets. In one street in South Auckland, there’s five outlets. In one street.
PAUL No, you made the point.
LEN In terms of the liquor outlets in South Auckland, I want to see leadership on this. And the only way to deal with the proliferation of liquor outlets – and there are 500 off-licences in Auckland as against 187 in Manukau City–
ANDREW And there’s even less on the North Shore.
LEN There is a major proliferation across the region, not just Manukau. And I want to say the key issue here is Parliamentary leadership and a leader of Auckland delivering a change in the legislation to enable local communities to have a serious say in the granting of liquor licences.
PAUL But, see, here’s the problem—
LEN The only way to seriously curb it.
PAUL You are already showing us a problem. I asked you how you’re going to guarantee the locality, the importance of local communities. You quite rightly mentioned a demonstration in Manukau City yesterday. But you’re each talking— you’re all talking about the proliferation of liquor outlets as if this is going to be driven not by the local boards, but by central mayoral leadership.
JOHN Well, it does need central mayoral leadership. To make this work, all the decisions on day one are going to be very very complex and difficult. It needs experience when it counts, and it needs stable leadership, and a leadership based on a lot of experience as a local councillor, regional councillor, a Member of Parliament, a minister of the Crown, a minister of local government, and twice the mayor of Auckland.
PAUL This is you?
JOHN Yes, sir.
PAUL You slid, Mr Banks, very easily into that, if I may say so. Let us—Can we discuss – and I’m reluctant to do this, but the public, I’m assured, expect it – can we discuss some of the perceived weaknesses of each of you? Mr Banks, how do we believe someone whose candidacy for the mayoralty of the supercity is viable because he stopped being who he really is? And, of course, the newspaper was— (LAUGHS) There was even a picture of a leopard, a mayoral candidate with the spots of a leopard. You’ve made remarks in the past, not too long ago, about homosexuals and it being unhygienic and so forth. You’ve said we don’t want transvestites in the police force because we don’t want them mincing up town with stockings on, fishnet stockings—
JOHN Paul, if you’re going to vote for me on my faults, you’re not going to vote for me. If you’re going to vote for me on my experience, you’re going to vote for me. If you’re going to vote for me on consistent, decisive leadership when it matters, you’re going to vote for me. I can unite Auckland. This is important. We’ve got to get it right. It’s our biggest opportunity.
PAUL I understand that, and people change, Mr Banks, but I think the feeling is you really are very confrontational. You’ve been very quiet for three years because you want this new job. Have you— Is the old Banks going to come back the moment you win re-election? If you win.
JOHN Well, let’s be fair about it. I’ve been elected to public office 10 times. I’m only the second mayor in Auckland that’s ever come back from exile. The people of Auckland are very generous. They’ll judge me on my strengths of leadership, decisive decision-making, experience when it matters – from day one.
PAUL Let me go to Andrew Williams. Perceived weaknesses. Do we need more public toilets?
ANDREW We do, Paul. We need a lot more lemon trees, too, I can say.
PAUL Yes. Hmm. I hope no lemon trees have been damaged. Well, Andrew, it’s a fair enough question. We had that incident after a bit of an afternoon at a restaurant. And then, of course, we had the revelations, several revelations, over a period of time, about abusive texts to people like the Prime Minister.
ANDREW Yes, and that was proven to be wrong, Paul. The Prime Minister didn’t get those at 3.30. He woke up and read his texts at 3.30. Our records show the last text was sent at 12— Sorry, 15 minutes past midnight the night that Parliament rose at midnight from the second bill. So sorry, I dismiss it.
PAUL Nevertheless, who sends a text to the Prime Minister at a quarter past midnight, Mr Williams? He’s got work.
ANDREW Paul, actually, the texts went to all four MPs on the North Shore. The other MPs as well.
JOHN Paul, let’s cut to the politics of substance.
PAUL Hang on. What I’m saying is people want to know the mayor is going to be rational. Now, here you are sending a text to MPs at a quarter past midnight.
ANDREW As they came out of the Parliament. As they came out of the Parliament, Paul.
PAUL All right. Mr Brown. Let’s go to you. The public is sick of free-loading by elected officials. We have the case of Murray McCully this week, of course, and the $185 bottles of Pinot Noir for the IRB. And you’re credit-card happy, it seems. We bought groceries at New World on the mayoral credit card. How could you have done that, Mr Brown? How could you have done that?
LEN Paul, we’ve all had question marks over our mayoral experiences.
PAUL But just a minute, you bought groceries on the mayoral credit card from New World in Takanini.
LEN I have been on the front foot on this issue. I’ve acknowledged that I could have been tidier. I sent my records off the Attorney-General— uh, for the Auditor-General’s assessment. Sent ‘em straight back. Uh, Paul, I acknowledged my mistakes, and I have learnt my lesson, and I know that we won’t do it again.
JOHN What I can tell you, Paul, I never had a credit card as a minister of the Crown.
PAUL No, the PA did.
ANDREW No, you use other people’s credit cards.
JOHN I’ve never had a credit card as the mayor of Auckland. And I’ve had $432.80 worth of expenses, in six years, outside the mayoral office. And I spend $75 a week on flowers, and my office runs—
ANDREW Wasn’t it $11,000 last year?
JOHN My office—
PAUL Mr Banks, I want you to— Gentlemen, please
ALL TALK AT ONCE
ANDREW $11,000 in flowers, John? $11,000 of flowers?
PAUL I want to get onto the substantial issue. I want the substantial issues.
JOHN Please, those living glasshouses should not be throwing stones, Paul.
PAUL Hang on, Len. Just a minute, Len. Please. All right. I really have to address this. It’s all very well decorating the office, making it look nice, sending flowers to nice people who are not very well and so forth. What you said was, ‘I’ve never had a credit card.’ You just repeated that. Of course, your PA does. That gives the impression, Mr Banks, with respect, of slipperiness.
JOHN Well, $432.80 of expenses outside—
PAUL ‘I don’t have a card.’ The PA does.
JOHN $432.80 of expenses outside the mayoral office in six years. What I’m going to—
PAUL No, answer the question.
JOHN What I’m going to tell you is this is about affordable progress and the mantra will be affordable progress. And the outcome will be value for money.
PAUL Mr Banks, please, answer yes or no.
JOHN Talk about the politics of substance.
PAUL Does that give a look of slipperiness, saying ‘I don’t have a credit card.’ It turns out the PA does? Yes or no?
JOHN The PA buys flowers with the credit card. That’s all.
PAUL Answer the question. All right—
JOHN There’s no groceries.
ANDREW $11,000 worth.
JOHN There’s no groceries. There’s no pork. There’s no flash meals. There’s no long liquid-lunches. There’s none of that. And by the way, at the new council, there’ll be no credit cards for any of the elected officials, and the transparency and accountability will be on the website every three months.
PAUL All right, Mr Banks. Thank you. Good, good, good. People can check the website and find out everything. Let’s move on to substantial issues. Or substantive, as we say these days. Transport. The greatest bugbear in Auckland. Andrew, you start us off.
ANDREW Absolutely. Transport is 80% of Aucklanders’ problems. That’s the big one. And what we’re going to do is roll out the public transport absolutely with integrated ticketing across the whole of Auckland.
PAUL That happens next year anyway.
ANDREW Yep. No, no. But it has to be completed. We have to have better ferry services. We have to have the full transport system running all around Auckland.
PAUL Can I stop you there? Better ferry services? What do you mean? Go to more places?
PAUL So we use the harbour more as a transport?
ANDREW Yeah, we’ve got the biggest open highway out there being unused, effectively.
LEN Well, not only that, but, for example, at Half Moon Bay, that needs upgrading. The Bayswater Marina needs upgrading. We need to be considering…
ANDREW Takapuna, Browns Bay, Hobsonville.
LEN …the investment into our other marina. Now, Paul, this is a part of an overarching, innovative transport system. So clearly we’re investing in rail. Rail to the airport. Rail to complete the inner-city loop. Rail to the North Shore. And so, Paul, this is an opportunity for a step-change.
PAUL Now, let’s talk about the inner-city loop, because this is where all trains come into Britomart. We knock the back wall down on the Britomart, and then we build an underground loop that takes us all around Auckland.
ANDREW And a cross-harbour tunnel to go to the North Shore.
PAUL No, let’s talk about that shortly. That’s another big one, Andrew. But this inner-city underground loop, I understand the hope is that 370,000 Aucklanders can be delivered within the CBD in 30 minutes. All of you want this? All of you are on the same page?
ANDREW and LEN AGREE
JOHN I don’t have a problem with that.
PAUL The government has a problem. The government won’t pay the one and a half billion. So how are you going to get it off them?
JOHN Advocacy. For the first time in history. For the first time in history, one council, one mayor, one voice, one song sheet and a big lobby group to Wellington. We can do it. But it’s not going to be about these issues, Paul. This election is going to be about who is the best-qualified candidate to deliver on the vision with affordable progress, with the most experience around consistent, decisive leadership.
PAUL And the way you will be judged on that is do we the have inner-city loop and do we manage to get it? Do you have the leadership to get that? Len Brown.
LEN That’s exactly right. So it’s just not about rates. It’s just not about taxes. It’s also about the possibility of us issuing significant infrastructure bonds. It’s also about us considering whether or not this is an appropriate project. And other appropriate projects for PPPs.
PAUL Ah, yes, I know. And you’re not opposed to those?
LEN No, I’m not. I’m comfortable for us to go through that process and look at those as one of the four alternatives.
PAUL What I’m asking you— Hang on, Andrew. What I’m asking you all is how you’re going to get the $1.5 billion off Steven Joyce, who doesn’t think he’s got the money.
ANDREW Paul, in the last 15 years, Auckland received $3 billion in its fuel taxes when it gave the government $7 billion in fuel taxes. We were $4 billion underfunded. It’s time that Auckland got a lot of that funding back. And so what we’re doing now— and we’re getting $900 million a year this year from the government. Five years ago, we were getting $50 million for Auckland transport. Finally the ledger is coming right. We’re getting the spending here. And it will happen. But we will have to have private-public partnerships to do, for instance, the cross-harbour tunnel.
JOHN Fixing the train set is critical. We push 18 trains an hour in and we pull 18 trains an hour out of the Britomart. This will give us 36 trains running up Albert St and back to Mt Eden. The train set will work with double tracking, modern rolling stock and electrification. It can be built with economic infrastructure bonds. $600 million has been lost – 600 million – by the people and their savings in shonky finance companies. We can put all of that money into economic infrastructure bonds to build Auckland, where the seniors have their money safe, they get a good return and they’re doing something great. They’re building a greater Auckland.
LEN So, Paul, it’s not just about the issue of credibility. It’s about the issue of trust and believability. Who does Auckland actually believe can deliver on these projects? Who has had strong focus? For example, in Manukau, we have at last the first extension…
ANDREW They’ve got a lot of bus lanes in Manukau.
LEN …to suburban rail in 73 years. So this is about believability and trust. Who do we trust to hold our public assets?
PAUL Train line— Who do we trust? I don’t know.
LEN Who do we trust to look after our communities?
JOHN No, Paul, but there’s—
PAUL Who do we trust? Tell me the answers.
LEN We are going to hold our public assets. We are going to hold our airport shares. We’re going to hold our port shares. We’re going to hold our water – waste water, storm water – Paul. Who do we trust to actually hold those airport shares in the future?
PAUL I assume you’re saying we’re trusting Mr Brown on this.
JOHN No, Paul—
PAUL No, hang on, Mr Banks, please. I’ve got to move on. The third harbour crossing. People outside Auckland will think it’s the second harbour crossing. It’s not. Third harbour crossing. We’ve got the Harbour Bridge, which it’s totally a bottleneck nightmare. Third harbour crossing, what do you favour, Mr Williams?
ANDREW Within the next 12 months we will confirm exactly what it is. I believe it will be tunnels going across.
PAUL That’s what you want?
ANDREW And it should be staged. And the first tunnels—
PAUL Is that what you want? Is that what you want?
ANDREW Absolutely. And the first tunnel should be for the rail. We get as many people off the roads and into rail going to the North Share, and the rail will go all the way to Orewa, not just to Takapuna or the lower North Shore. To Orewa. And people from the North Harbour area will be able to go all the way through to the airport. Now, you imagine the step-change in Auckland when people don’t have to drive all the way to the Auckland Airport, they can take a fast train there.
PAUL Give me a date, then, on completion of the third harbour crossing.
LEN 15 years. 15 years we need to drive through with some urgency, Paul. The reason is that these three projects are critical in step-change for Auckland’s transport transformation. So we need to move quickly on it.
JOHN Promises, promises, promises.
PAUL No, hang on, Mr Banks. I just want—
LEN This is about vision, Paul. This is about delivery.
ANDREW The clip-ons have to be fixed within 20 years.
PAUL We need the third harbour crossing.
ANDREW The clip-ons have to be fixed within 20 years.
PAUL Let’s go back to start. So the first stage you would see is a tunnel, that’s rail.
PAUL And when would that be completed by?
ANDREW Uh, by 2018 I’ve said.
PAUL 2018. What comes next?
ANDREW Four years later, the road tunnels.
PAUL How many road tunnels?
ANDREW Two road tunnels, one each way. So you’ve got four tunnels. This is how the modern technology is, because, Paul, within 20 years, the clip-ons are going to have to be physically replaced on the Harbour Bridge.
JOHN Oh no, Paul. Let me have an opportunity.
PAUL Hang on. Let me finish this off. So give me the year for the completion of the challenges of the third harbour crossing.
ANDREW It will start in 2022 and it will take about five years to build.
PAUL Right, Mr Banks.
JOHN Dear me. Promises, promises, promises. Billions and billions and billions of dollars. The best-qualified candidate to work with this John Key government, this National Party government this year and after the election next year is myself. We’ve got to have open dialogue and good conversation and being able to pitch up our arguments and being able to win those with a united Auckland of one voice.
PAUL Yes, all right, but these are platitudes, with respect, Mr Banks. Tell me about what your vision is for the third harbour crossing.
ANDREW And provide more revenue-making bus lanes.
PAUL Tell me about what your vision is for the third harbour crossing.
JOHN My vision for a third harbour crossing is around all of the major projects. Most of the major projects about roading construction build, integrated public transport well on the way. The first three years of the Auckland Council, the mantra will be affordable progress. The outcome will be value for money and holding rates—
PAUL Have you got no dates in your mind about the third harbour crossing? You can have all the roading projects in the world, but you can’t go underwater.
JOHN I agree with third harbour crossing. I agree with rail from Albany to the airport. It’s about affordable progress…
PAUL No dates, Mr Banks?
JOHN …coming out of an international recession. We’ve got to keep rates down, and we’ve got make sure there’s efficiencies. We’ve got to make sure there’s value for money, and we’ve got to make sure, on day one, there’s great services to the rate-payers.
LEN Paul, I understand that—
PAUL So no promises or guarantees from you on third harbour crossing? Is that what I take?
JOHN Yeah, the promise is one day there’ll be a third harbour crossing. Is it 15 years or 20 years? I don’t know. I’m best qualified to talk to this government about that and work with Steven Joyce on it.
PAUL So a decision, we know, is going to be made on the third harbour crossing by the end of next year. Anyway, we’re talking 2025, 2028. The Auckland waterfront, Mr Brown, Mr Williams, Mr Banks. Now, whether— It’s widely regarded by Aucklanders, and I think possibly New Zealanders as well, as if not the gateway to New Zealand, it’s certainly our shop front. What would you do, what is your vision for the Auckland City waterfront?
LEN We’re going to have a master plan that will be put in place one year after the mayoral election. We’re going to do a major promenade along the Quay St road. In front of the waterfront, we’re going to upgrade and update Wynyard Quarter. I see the potential of a major exhibition—
PAUL Can I say, people outside of Auckland, Wynyard Point is Tank Farm?
LEN That exactly is. We’re going to put a wonderful exhibition centre. That’s the place for our iconic development. I want to do a cruise ship terminal on the Captain Cook Wharf. I’m looking at the possibility of ensuring that Queens Wharf maintains itself as an open public area. And, Paul, I am not keen on carrying out significant work on the Port sight at this point. I want us to take a long hard look at the Port facility, Bledisloe, Fergusson.
PAUL So you wouldn’t consider anything like, for example, an international design competition for—
LEN Absolutely. But we need to actually show respect to international design competitions, not start the competition and then abort it halfway through, as what happened with Queens Wharf.
PAUL Yes, which was very Mickey Mouse. It was. All right, Mr Williams.
ANDREW Paul, you received my policy statement yesterday. I very clearly—
PAUL Yes, it was very long, and it was Saturday.
ANDREW Yeah, it was Saturday. But I very clearly stated Queens Wharf is not the place for the cruise ship terminal. That’s there for the people of Auckland. That’s there to open up the waterfront. Captain Cook Wharf has to be the one to be extended and turned into a dedicated cruise terminal.
PAUL Yeah, but do you have a vision for the integration of that entire stretch—
ANDREW Absolutely. Absolutely. And, Paul, what I have a vision for is much of Quay St will get undergrounded into a tunnel so that the whole of the area becomes a very pedestrian-friendly link to Queen St. Queen St is our main street for Auckland. It is cut off from the harbour. What we want to do is pedestrianise it at the bottom so that the people of Auckland can really enjoy the waterfront.
PAUL Your vision for the waterfront.
JOHN It’s not about iconic buildings.
PAUL You’ve had many years.
JOHN It’s not about— Well, yes, six years ago it was me that saved Westhaven from a certain sale to a Taiwanese property investor.
PAUL Your vision?
JOHN I bought Westhaven for 50 million for the people of Auckland and your great-grandchildren yet born. My vision is not about iconic buildings. My vision is about a truly iconic waterfront. An iconic waterfront at the bottom of Queen St, Onehunga, all up the east coast bays, Maraetai, Piha Beach, where Bob Harvey comes from, is the iconic waterfront. We need to protect and enhance with an integrated plan and a master plan for all of the development from Bledisloe right to Westhaven.
PAUL Ok, now, here’s the guts question, in a way. And everyone’s going to be asking this. The thought was, early on, when we talked about a supercity, that we might get a situation where we have what the Americans have, which is the executive mayor with a wide range of decision-making capability. In fact, we end up where whichever one of you is going to be elected, or any of the other candidates is going to be elected, will be one vote of 21. In the end, it’s the same as it always was. What can the mayor do? What are you going to be able to guarantee the people of Auckland you can do – briefly, please, I’m running out of time – with the limited power you have as one in 21 votes on the council.
LEN It will depend on how inclusive you are as the mayor and your ability to actually unite that council. We’ve had a history of divisive politics in Auckland City. I’m going to unite our council, for a start. Have the opportunity to appoint the deputy mayor and the chairs. So with a united council, we’re going to deliver out a vision in this city based on a transportation reformation, of strong economic growth—
PAUL So it’s persuasion? It’s persuasion and inclusion?
LEN It’s persuasion and inclusion, yep.
ANDREW Paul, I have a plan to have four deputies under me. One for the north, one for the south, one for the west and one for central.
PAUL That will be a nightmare, don’t you think?
ANDREW No, no. The four deputies will help bring the whole of Auckland together, because this cannot all be on one single person. This is wrong. The same way as it cannot all be on the Prime Minister. You have ministers around the Prime Minister. Four deputies.
PAUL Good. Thank you. And Mr Banks? Four deputies, yes.
JOHN What unites us is far greater than what divides us. We have to work together from all corners to make sure it works, but what it will be about is affordable progress and value for money. Savings, efficiencies and good services. It will be about consistent decisive leadership, embracing the communities, embracing the account—uh, the people. Leaving political persuasions at the door, leaving cronyism behind, making it work, because we have to make it work for Auckland, and we have to make it work for New Zealand.
PAUL Well, I wish the three of you luck, and I thank you very much for coming on the programme. Manukau City mayor Len Brown, North Shore City mayor Andrew Williams and Auckland City mayor Mr John Banks.